The Muslim holiday of 'Ashoura': a bloody celebration of intolerance

This week many Muslims around the world celebrated the holiday of Ashoura. I have found a page that explains what this barbaric ritual is all about:


This week, Muslims in Lebanon
"celebrate" the holiday of Ashoura
Ashoura in Lebanon

The observance of Ashoura is one of the most important events in the Shia calender. Ashoura marks the anniversary of the martyrdom of Husayn, grandson of the Prophet Mohammad, in what is now Kerbala, Iraq. The death of Husayn was the beginning of the Sunni/Shia split, which persists in Islam to this day.

In the past, many Shia men have demonstrated their devotion to Husayn by letting their blood flow freely from self-inflicted wounds. Today, however, many governments have tried to ban this practice, with varying degrees of success. In Lebanon, the practice is permitted, and a bloody commemoration of Ashoura takes place in Nabatieh every year.

Most participants make a small cut on their head, and then beat the wound with their palm--or in this case a sword--to keep the wound open and bleeding.

Participants then march in groups around the town, yelling chants to express their devotion to Husayn and the Prophet. [...]

Many children participate, and the tradition seems to be an important rite of passage for many Shia boys.

The article above fails to mention that participants also call for the death of Jews, America and Israel. In my opinion, there's a direct link between this culture of blood and death, and the hate and terrorism executed by certain Muslims around the world.

I don't think I can trust Shiite Muslims that celebrate Ashoura with defending women rights, gay rights, democracy or freedom. They'll have to stop cutting themselves like barbaric morons from the 4th century before there's a chance they'll reject intolerance, violence and hate.

For more barbaric pictures, see below (Warning: babies and children are also cut - please be aware that the images below are quite graphic).







Posted by David Melle
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Comments

Why do u have to interfere with people's cultures and religions? why don't u leave people alone? u say there is "human rights" if human rights truely exist then the people who "cut their heads" have all the right to do it. if the guy wants to wound himself, is it any of your business? NO. Start minding your own business please.

Posted by: Aliaa at March 18, 2003 02:56 AM


Aliaa,

It is my own business when some of these Muslims who have this fascination with blood and murder also call for the “Death of the Jews” and for the destruction of the “Zionist Entity”.

It is my own business when some of these Muslim kids are brought up in this atmosphere of blood and death and this culture where they aspire to become homicide bombers in the Palestinian Islamic Jihad or Al-Qaeda.

For the longest time I have ignored these delusional fanatical Islamic Supremacists who want me, my family and my friends in Israel and America dead.

No more.

Posted by: David Melle at March 18, 2003 08:01 AM


I'd say, let them be. Once in a while, some of these idiots will bled themselves to death. Thus reducing the pool of suicidal nuts strapping explosive to themselves. Beating their own head to keep it bleeding? What a bunch of geniuses! No wonder they kept 7th century's way of life. Who knows how many brain cells stop functioning with each beating to the head.

Posted by: Cinorom Simalsi at March 29, 2003 03:00 AM


Cinorom, what u're saying is unacceptable. you cannot go on insulting people like that. "idiots"? how would u like it if i call u an idiot just because u r different and because u do something i don't approve of? if this website were objective that comment would have been removed...

Posted by: Aliaa at April 1, 2003 01:28 AM


Aliaa ,

Its not about interfering with people's religion or violating human rights as your first post suggests. Its about common sense and living a civilised life(going against the unwritten rules of civilisation is not freedom its foolishness) . We are living in 21st century for Christ's sake.

Next time dont tell me that suicides should be legalised as it is a matter of a person's freedom of choice.

We even have censorships in movies and TV so that kids dont see too much blood and violence as it effects their fragile minds. But think about these people covered with blood walking on the street beating their heads to keep them bleeding, what effect does this have on small kids ?

Posted by: calvin at April 3, 2003 11:55 PM


We must not forget that the book of Revalations which both the Jews and the Muslims do not accept have a part in this grand drama.All this strife is only the beginning of the scenario which will result in Armageddon. Truth is truth no matter what.Not believing in these things will not change their outcomes.

Posted by: David at April 15, 2003 12:33 PM


Aliaa is correct in every way. This is a religious procedure that muslims want to perform. These pictures don't show violence or murder. This doesn't influence people to perform suicidal bombings. This shows how much they love Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him)and all the other prophets and their familys(peace be upon them.

NOW HOW THE HELL DOES THAT INFLUENCE PEOPLE TO JOIN AL-QUEDA AND PALASTINIAN ISLAMIC JIHAD? YOU LOT HAVE BEEN WATCHING TOO MUCH NEWS

Posted by: Bilal at April 18, 2003 03:11 PM


I don't consider myself a bleeding heart liberal by any stretch of the imagination, but I have to defend the views of Aliaa and Bilal. In some parts of the world Christians nail themselves to crosses to commemorate Christ's death. There is no better way to declare your allegiance to someone than to die for them, which is what these Muslims are symbolically doing during Ashoura. Don't get me wrong, as an American I can't say I'm fond of people using the occasion of a religious ritual to call for the deaths of entire nations, especially my own. I think it, along with these postings, goes to show that people can be intolerant and small minded all over the world, and I wish we could stop it. I don't think squashing people's right to live their lives is going to help that, though. I wish that as "civilized people" we could acknowledge that everyone who is not like us is not necessarily barbaric or stupid. I have heard supposedly enlightened people say that Iraqi Shiites "need a dictator" to keep them from expressing their faith in this way. What people need is information. Islamist religious leaders preach America as the Great Satan, the one great corrupt force in the world. Why do we demean Muslims by calling them names instead of attempting to show them the other side of the West? Western culture and democracy may not be right for every country (I don't even like some aspects of Western culture), but we'll never know unless we have a useful, productive dialogue instead of an inflammatory one.

Posted by: Matt at April 23, 2003 01:52 PM


Hello everyone

I am a muslim shia who particaptes in this every year
and i have one thing to say to david:When the muslims cut there heads in your city, it becomes your business and you can talk all you want about "bloody muslims" but you will never get anywhere in life because of your haterd for us mislims and that is the reason there will never be peace.

Posted by: Ali at June 10, 2003 10:53 AM


Ali,

I do not have "hatred for all Muslims" as you described in your post.

On the other hand, yes, I do hate the Muslims that are part of Al-Qaeda, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Hezbolla, and other Muslim terrorist groups. They specifically target women and children, and they do all that they can to murder my friends, my family and I. I will do everything I can to badmouth them, I will fight them with everything I have, and I wish that all of these barbaric Islamic murderers to be either arrested or killed.

Now, don't tell me that there won't be peace because of my will to fight these racist fascist bastards.

The real reason for the violence and war that goes on between Israel and the Hezbollah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Hamas and Arafat's Al-Aksa brigades, is the will of these groups to destroy Israel and their rejection of any acceptance of an agreement that would allow Israel to exist.

The real reason for the violemce is the racist and fascist ideology many of these Muslims are brought up to believe in - an extreme violent way of life that rejects anyone and everything that is not "Muslim".

Also, it is also ironic that you write about my "hatred of Muslims" while using the email address hiz_bolla@hotmail.com - the Hezbollah being one of the worst Islamic terrorist organizations out there.

Go cut your head and bleed to death you fascist freak!

Posted by: David Melle at June 10, 2003 07:08 PM


Hate to rain on anyone's parade. But looking at these photos it tells us one thing: THIS IS A VIOLENT RELIGION!

Islam is a violent religion, pure and simple. The Palestinians want a state of their own, fine. But how any sane person can defend this barbaric, horrible photos is beyond me.

I have seen photos of Southern Christian nutcases who handle snakes to prover their idiotic faith as well. This is beyond that.

Religion isn't a good thing. Be it Christianity, the Jewish faith, or Islam (the worst).

Islam is the so called religion of peace. Yeah, right, and I'm Donald Duck! It's a violent, scary, oppresive religion. That a lot of liberals like for some reason. I guess because it is so anti-Western and anti-American.

Hopefully someday people will smarten up and realize it is DUMB and wrong to slash your head open, to slash your child's head open! Insane how some fools can defend this rubbish.

No more religion people! Please, stop the violence now! How many people have to suffer or die because of a bunch of outdated B.S.! That is what all religion is B.S. and nonsense and fairy tales!

Wake up!

Posted by: Freethinker at August 12, 2003 11:44 AM


The English speaking Muslims have a defence mechanism that does not allow introspection. Advisedly, I am not calling them educated. We have a lot of them in India. The 'Muslim Intellectuals' as they are called, is sometimes a sort of 'oxymoron'.

It is difficult to make them see certain viewpoints from that of a 'Non-Muslim', or 'Infidels' an epithet for all of us. They can never get out of the garb. The community is over-sensitive to criticism that sets in as a bit of fanaticism in everyone.

Look at Ali who, even after the explanation, is probably convinced that all jews hate Muslims.

How can they call it a religion that preaches peace and at the same time subscribe to the view that there shall be no peace till the entire world accepts Islam? (Dar-Ul-Islam)

Probably there will be peace if entire world accepts Judaism or christianity or Hinduism or even some form of mongolian tribalism. Who can make them understand ?

I cannot understand how the west, especially UK and USA can stand those 'liberals' who talk of violation of Human rights when in their country of origin a person cannot preach a religion other than Islam without inviting the wrath of a firing Squad?

Look at Kashmir in India, the one place where they are in majority. They have summarily solved the problem of minority community by driving them out. Tell me this is the peace the Islam preaches. I know it is JUST THIS KIND OF PEACE Islam preaches.

I cannot believe either that Bin-Ladens can live without the support of local people for whom the only reason for protecting him is a religious one.

It is really a sad situation without a solution, like a marriage that wout work. I would like to leave them alone if they would leave me alone. But they would not. They bomb all over the world.

Sometimes when I read the statement of the terrorists, I think their message is 'Why the hell are'nt you afraid of us, as the God is on our side?'.

Because I would fight with ideas, not guns, to leave a better place for my children as many right thinking people would.Just because we do not have a gun, it does not mean we are afraid as it does not follow that the one with the gun is Brave

Posted by: Indian_view at September 11, 2003 05:05 AM


is it just me, or are the comments getting longer all the time?
could be because this discussion has lost it's point?

Posted by: aetheist at September 23, 2003 02:22 AM


I am a Shia Muslim; and reading all of these responses is very disappointing... Most of you are like little children who believe things shown on tv....

First off, even though I don't do this form of mathom, it is done by "few", where as the media portrays it done by every Shia Muslim... Many tape their heart area for morning to the Prophets (PBUH) family...
If any of you were to hear how the Prophet's family was masacred, I'm sure you would have sympathy....

This is the problem with the West and the Muslim World, people have little tolerance to understand eachother, this is why we are stuck in a rut...

This ritual has nothing to do with terrorism... Thats all i can say...

However, it is a tool that many Westners and other Muslim countries use to put down Shia Muslims...

However, it only makes these other Muslims and WEstners look like fools... Because they are neglecting to understand the essence of the ritual.. They look at the beating process, and never study the reason for it... Then they generalize, saying every Shia Muslim does it, when a "few" do it the extreme way, while the majority have a moderate procession.


YOU ASK ME, ITS ALL SIMPLE, YOU ALL HAVE TO EDUCATE YOURSELVES ABOUT DIFFERENT CULTURES AND RITUALS BEFORE YOU START GENERALIZING, UNTILL YOU DO THAT, YOU'RE MAKING YOURSELF SOUND LIKE AN IGNORENT FOOL AND YOU ARE MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT TO ESTABLISH PEACE IN THIS WORLD.


By the way, many like to twist what the Quran has to say about their not being peace untill Islam is the common religion... This is just reinforcing the fact that Islam is the true religion, and untill it is used properly, their will not be peace... Whats wrong with saying that , theres nothing violent about that... It is just refering to Islam as the relgion that is not hypocritical and is true..?..?


ALL I CAN SAY IS, GROW UP, ASIDE FROM WATCHING THE NEWS MEDIA, ETC. WHICH PORTRAYS A DISTORTED IMAGE OF SHIA MUSLIMS, TRY AND LEARN ABOUT WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN AND LEARN TO ACCEPT IT...


PEACE, AND MAY ALLAH HAVE MERCY ON ALL OF US.

Posted by: Amna at October 1, 2003 08:59 PM


dear all
I escaped from Iran when I was 9. Half of my family is muslim and the other isn't so here is my take on the issue. We used to stand in the snow for an hour every morning chanting slogans such as 'death to America' death to France, death to Israel. I grew up thinking that Islam is about hate. Most of my family were killed in Iran because we were not Muslim but were given three chances under torture to convert. None did so they faced the hang mans noose. many years later I know for a certainty that Islam is not about hate...but Muslim is. Not one member of my religious group strapped bombs and detonated it in retaliation for the way we were treated. Muslims on the other hand hate the Hindus (Kashmir/India Pakistan etc). Hate the Christians (refer to christains being killed in Phillapines & Africa/Nigeria), hate the Sikhs, hate the Jews with a passion and hate other minority groups such as members of my religion. They even blew up the giant Buddahs in Bamian (Afghanistan). Do you therefore see why Muslims are not getting any sympathy?

Posted by: me at October 5, 2003 06:33 PM


Hi everyone.you know i got into this site accidently and i'm very glad i did.i was actually searching for something for my research paper and here i am in this site. well i just got a couple of comments to say to the poeple that wrote these stuff......

"I'd say, let them be. Once in a while, some of these idiots will bled themselves to death. Thus reducing the pool of suicidal nuts strapping explosive to themselves. Beating their own head to keep it bleeding? What a bunch of geniuses! No wonder they kept 7th century's way of life. Who knows how many with each beating to the head."
Posted by: Cinorom Simalsi on March 29, 2003 03:00 AM

well well all i have to say is ur 100% jew cuz u sound like it.another thing,u think these people are idiots?think again.only an idiot will say that.so i guess u know who i'm refering to.i think u need some help getting the big picture in different religions.maybe u should take a world religion class someday.and another thing no brain cell will stop functioning and no harm will ever happen to those poeple because their blood is shed for the prophet(pbuh)and his family.if i ever had the chance to do this, i won't even hesitate.think twice before u insult someone else's religion.if you noticed none of the muslims that wrote messages insulted ur religion.i agree with amna, grow up!oh i guess u won't see this message because u only had the rotten guts to send a message once.


hmmmmmm David, David.u r sooooooo uneducated. before i paste ur other comment i will do this one first..
"The real reason for the violemce is the racist and fascist ideology many of these Muslims are brought up to believe in"....david, u know who's been racist here since i started to read those messages?YOU and Cinorom Simalsi!

and for this:

"For the longest time I have ignored these delusional fanatical Islamic Supremacists who want me, my family and my friends in Israel and America dead"
"No more"
all i can say is boy ur selfish.u r only thinking about ur self and family.what about the other people?the ones ur call ur people. and don't bring America's name here, it has nothing to do with religion.we are talking about religion heree duuuuuhhh not the U.S or any other country. well not all muslims are osama binladin ok.i am definitly not one of his fans.No one has any right to kill innnocent people, no matter what race or religion they have. before u talk about muslims wanting america dead have a little researh first about how many muslims live here and how americans and arabs are bonded here, we are not racists in the U.S not all of us for sure.we are family with the american people.don't make it seem that they hate muslims like you ok.speak for your self not for others!
Posted by: David Melle on March 18, 2003 08:01 AM

hey another message for daviiid wooooooooooowww boy i thought it might be someone else when i copied and pasted it to this comment box.let see what we've got here....
"Also, it is also ironic that you write about my "hatred of Muslims" while using the email address hiz_bolla@hotmail.com - the Hezbollah being one of the worst Islamic terrorist organizations out there.

Go cut your head and bleed to death you fascist freak!
Posted by: David Melle on June 10, 2003 07:08 PM

woooow david!!didn't i tell you you are racist? you want him to cut his headdd and bleeddd to deathh???? why don't you do it first?we'll have 1 less racist in this world.and if you ask some of your racist friends as well to do that, u will be making a favor to the worllddddd!honeslty man, that's the best community service you can do.i don't support annyyyyy terrorist organisation or any of the hizbollas or who they call haraket amel, hamas or any other organisation but helllllllooooo if he wants his email address like that is none of ur businesssssss daviiiidddd.he is a free man, he can do whatever he wantsss not a racist and coward who write messages and insult muslims ok.

david one last comment about this message...u mentioned the word "freak"...THAT'S 100% YOU

someone mentioned up there about people dying in israel or something, what about the people dying in palestine, they innocent just like the innocent people that are sometimes killed in terrorist attack all over the world.this is what's causing hate and increase the rate or racists in this world.hatered, bombings, blood shed all of this won't stop the war. you have to learn to love one another respected other people's religion.PEACE for Gods sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To the rest of the people who wrote on the behalf of islam God bless you all

Posted by: Arab American at October 16, 2003 10:33 PM


HAHA I love you

Posted by: Kareem at November 15, 2003 12:46 PM


Sir,

Please note these are shia Muslims and therefore do not follow the Quran correctly. It states in the the book that one should not harm himself/herself as your body belongs to Allah.

Also they believe the prophet Mohammed's cousin, Ali, is more important.

Please note I am not a muslim or religous but intend to get the facts rights.

Let us all remember Englands Victory over Australia,

Good Day

Posted by: Ross at November 25, 2003 05:08 PM


90% of the muslims were not showing any loyality to thier country. They are not concerned about the country and the people. They've been doing cold blooded murder in the name of Holy War. Stop all these and start loving mankind. All the religions are preaching about the love for mankind.

Posted by: Dev at January 6, 2004 05:12 PM


i just wanna say to every person that talked shit about arabs and shia muslms on this site, that i pray to alla that u'll be cursed all your lives and i pray that u'll burn in hell, u obviously dn't kno y we do this celebration during ashoura so dn't go talkin your shit, get your facts straight first u stupid pieces of shit. and i do hope that america burns cause america is the devil.

Posted by: mohamed at February 17, 2004 11:48 PM


i can't believe that half of u people are so racist. human have human right. shia poeple could do whatever they believe in. so if u talk shit about islam. may allah burn u in hell and if u are with islam may god bless u. so go to hell who ever is talking bad about religion. take care muslim loverand leave the people alone.they have the right to do whatever they want.

Posted by: francasca at February 29, 2004 08:51 AM


Yikes!
I came here by accident but have comments:

I don't belive in or follow any religion. From what I see here, I am glad I do not. Hate from most of you to most of you. One religion is NOT more righteous over another. It would be a truly magnificent moment when "Respect for each other" dominates. That means, no killing. No terrorist killings, no anti-terrorist killings. Children always end up being killed by war, by terrorists, by peacekeepers! USA is ONE of the culprits, to say the least.When one represses another due to racist beliefs or believes someone should not and cannot be different as USA has done, the repressed people, who have their "rights" taken away will strike back anyway they can. What is the surprise there?

Respect folks. Religion right or wrong: people have a RIGHT to express it, provided they do not impinge on the rights of others.

Think. Be civilized. Believe in what you want, and express it how you will. But ABOVE ALL respect that everyone has the same right as you.

Religion is believing in someting/someone- we are all different. We all have different beliefs. Expect that. Respect that. Only hurting your fellow human is ultimately wrong. Their beliefs are NOT wrong provided there is respect.

Posted by: Nicole at March 2, 2004 10:03 AM


What a munch of religious morons. Don't any of you realize there is only one god and he's gold? His deciples are worshiped the world over in the form of greenbacks. He allows anyone who collects enough greenbacks to mureder anyone you want, for any reason. He doesn't care what you do with the nukes you buy. There's always some stupid religious fool ready to murder in the name of their own god so why not convert to the only true religion...gold. The christians had the inquisition to murder anyone who stood in their way. The muslims use women and children as suicide bombers to murder women and children. The hindus are just as bad. Maybe the only non-violent religion is budism. But no-one cares, as long as you bring your greenbacks and your gold, there are nukes for sale out there somewhere. Soon enough one or another of you fools will go too far and destroy everything. A lot of good your hocus pocus will do anyone then.

Posted by: Atheist at March 2, 2004 10:58 AM


Dear all of you:

We all have one God whether we are Muslims, Christians, Hindus, or Buddhism . God is love and God is respect. God Has sent Jesus Christ, Mohammad and others in order to learn to love each other and leave peacefully. Unfortunately, we are not following his will. Even in your comments above you are not respecting each other. So how come you are following his will? You can state your opinion without insulting. Its true that everybody is free to remember Ashoura as they want to. But there is one thing that people should not forget, that nor in the Bible nor in the Koran said that people should hurt themselves. The real way to express your sadness is by fasting and being a good person.
You can not beat yourself to show to your prophet that you are a good person and the second day you won’t follow what was written in Holly Books. If we, as Human Beings will remain hypocrites to ourselves we will never achieve peace among us and the Devil will control the world. Fight the Devil this all I can say.

Posted by: carla at March 3, 2004 08:05 AM


there is only but one god, one truth, one soul in each of us, one day, u will all come from been blinded by your own self endulged ellusions and egnorance for each other, wake up! find the real beauty in each and every one of us and u will find the true god
god bless

Posted by: aeisha at March 3, 2004 07:15 PM


Hi,
I am a shiite muslim living in Australia. I was raised here my whole life, and have always attempted to steer as far away as possible from the political and religious spotlight. But sometimes, the arrogant and uneducated remarks of some people force me to speak out about a religion and culture that has been brutalized by misconceptions and misinformation. Before I start I would like to say to ROSS, that by the sounds of it you are not only muslim, which I completely respect, but you are completely ignorant towards Islam and in particular shiism. I am a shiite muslim and I love Imam Ali (the prophets Son-in- law) But I love Allah more than anything. Our sorrow during Ashoura is not because we worship Imam Ali or any other Imam, it is because we respect and appreciate the sacrifices of him and his family, just like you respect the ANZACS. The Koran is the message from God, therefore above all importance and Imam Ali is servant of God. Secondly just like the KKK and other religious fanatic groups exist, these people shown on this website are not a representation of Shiism, but rather a extreme interpretation. Self- mutilation is completely forbidden in our religion. Furthermore, DAVID, when you associte Ashora with intolerance, I beleive you are being a hypocrite, because you posting this website is a perfect example of the intolerance and lack of understanding you show towards Islam. Oh let guess it is alright for Jews to whatever they want as long as it does not upset Jews. For others reading this please do not misinterpret my sarcasm as being racism. Ihave alot of Jewish friends and they are extremely nice people. But they are educated people who understand, appreciate and respect the imporatance of cultural and religious diversity. Islam is a religion of peace and any human being who has even touched on the surfaces of the real Islam will appreciate what I am saying. I am not here to defend people like Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussien, They are figures who have violated every principle that OIslam stands for. But I will defend Hezoballah and Hamas. When you associated terrorism with such groups, how exactly do you define terrorism? These groups do not kill Jews because they are Jewish, They do it becasue they are defnding their land, culture and religion. Is your government not commiting terrorism when they murder thousnads of innocent Palestinians, or is it because you all walk in with army clothes, and tanks and it is sytematically institutionalized, that justifies it? When a westerner or a Jew defends his/ her country they are patriots and freedom fighters, but when an Arab does it they are terrorists. How does that work? Is that not also a sign of intolerance? Moreover, when you talk about Islam perpetuating sucide bombings, I think you better take a hard long look at your government and what is pushing these people over the edge. Believe me, Muslims do not wake up in the morning and think that I am bored, I think I will blow myself up, there is something far greater that has forced these people to these extremes. If you want a solution to this problem, because peace is not working, this is a possibiliy- Why not hand over to the Palestinians the same amount of Artillery the Isralei Army has and I guarentee that suicide bombings will stop. But when you have bombs and they have stones do not whine when they retaliate, no matter what the form of retaliation is, because that is all they have.
So next time you talk about suicide bombing and terrorism do not point the finger at Islam, but rather the inhumane and oppresive regime that your government has forced upon the Palestinians and all the Arabs.

Posted by: Ahlam at March 7, 2004 12:19 AM


What a bunch of crap!Why doesn't eveyone stop worrying about who's better and realize that there's hundreds of religions out there and maybe, just maybe people might just be different than our clean,censored, and edited country. Where anyone who might have a different view on things is labeled wierd or unacceptable. People do have a right to practice their religion even if you don't agree, and just because they aren't in a church on their knees doesn't mean that they are going to burn in hell,just that they are a different. The world would suck without variety and the ability to choose for ourselves. So SUCK IT UP !!

Posted by: fee at March 8, 2004 12:32 PM


Hi,

I'm a Muslim Shia who does NOT participate in these actions. In fact, I condemn them, as do a lot of Shia leaders. Yes, it's true. Islam IS a religion of peace, and what these people are doing is what they believe is a good way to mourn the death of Imam Husayn. However, if they actually followed our religion more closely, they would know that such acts are NOT permitted in Islam!! For one thing, it's "haram" or forbidden to pray with such wounds and blood so how in the world would this be allowed in the Islam religion.

[FactsOfIsrael.com notes: Support for Islamic mass murderers from Hezbollah, and hateful comments against Israel and the United States deleted]

Thank you.

Posted by: Ali Ezzeddine at March 9, 2004 02:36 PM


To Ahlam,

First of all, "Oh let guess it is alright for Jews to whatever they want as long as it does not upset Jews. For others reading this please do not misinterpret my sarcasm as being racism." IS RACISM whether you would like to think so or not, and as a Jew I am personally offended by it.

Know that within Israel and Jewish communities around the world there is plenty of conflict politically within our own communities. Aside from world criticism Sharon has to deal with critics within his own country and people BECAUSE ISRAEL IS A DEMOCRACY. Israel is not trying to take over the world and you are deluding yourself and making misrepresentations if you say this.

ALso, when you said "If you want a solution to this problem, because peace is not working, this is a possibiliy- Why not hand over to the Palestinians the same amount of Artillery the Isralei Army has and I guarentee that suicide bombings will stop. But when you have bombs and they have stones do not whine when they retaliate, no matter what the form of retaliation is, because that is all they have." I hate to break it to you but ISRAEL SUPPLIES "PALESTINIANS" WITH MONEY AND WEAPONS, WHICH ARE THEN USED AGAINST ISRAEL.

Also you will be fascinated to know that Yassir Arafat, leader of the PA, is one of the richest men in the world, and has his money stored in bank accounts in Europe. He is the one forcing his people in such a bad situation because he does not support his people. Know where Arafat's wife lives? Not in their beloved "homeland" but in France with all the luxuries imaginable.

You say that Israel has bombs and the palestinians only have stones. Please tell me then what you call someone going into a cafe or nighclub and killing dozens of innocent people almost immediately. You say that you live in Australia, as do I. In my 20 years of life I've never seen a stone that can do that, have you? Also, I've been to Israel 3 times, never seen exploding stones there... amazing!

There is one simple arguament that must be remembered. There has only ever been one Jewish suicide bomber... his name was Baruch Goldstein and he was condemned by almost the entire Jewish and Israeli population. How many Arabs, Muslims, Palestinians condemn the countless suicide bombings their people are doing?

Posted by: shalom at March 18, 2004 12:58 AM


My religion, your religion. My God, your God.
How many 'Gods' are there? Allah is One but realised in many ways.
To the Muslims He is Allah. To others He has another identity - but ultimately He is the one and single entity.

Why do we hate each other because of their religion?

Why don't we stand up to poveryt? rapists? paedophiles? murderers? looters? and those who are responsible for social injustice?

Instead we focus on committing violence towards other people because of their religion, rather than what kind of principles, morals, ethics or values they have.

Do we not realise that religion is an organised collection of 'goodness'? Instead of collectively combatting the evil or 'badness' that exists in society we have reverted to hurting and hating each other.

Lets find common ground among us and promote these common values rather than the slight contradictions we may have which exist moreso due to cultural differences rather than religious.

I am a Hindu.

Posted by: BP at March 25, 2004 05:14 AM


Salamu alaikum,

It is not ur bussiness to judge whether those ppl are idiot, morons, or whatever you want to call them, ur speaking about human right and democracy, those guyz want to hurt themselves, let them do it, in isreal, US, and other countries a guy can marry other guy, isnt that bad, for you it isnt, but for islam, guys can marry guys... and ladies can marry ladies, and what freedom are you speaking about, letting ur sister get laid when she is 16 with a guy uoi barely know,or go have sex with anyone... notice that in ur religon ur free to do things that im my religon ( islam ) isnt allowed, and the opposite is the same... and the thing of not trusting any shiaa guy, why do you thing that you mustnt trust shiaa...

thank you
Hussain

Posted by: Hussain at April 10, 2004 06:12 AM


These pics look like the Outtake from the movie "CARRIE RETURNS".. O wait that's human blood? Here is a wake up call for all the Flinstones.. Cutting youself and your baby up to worship some god or phrophits is fucked up.. if you try to defend that as your right, YOU are fucked up.. I draw the line where you start cutting up your own kids head. and who here is going to defend that?

There is no tollerance in fundamental Islam for other religions.. this is a fact.. are there any here muslims here that would refute that?

Do you really expect pictures like this to give the rest of us living in the modern world not the 16th century to have a comforting feeling this religion at it's fundamental core is a peacefull religion.. COME one lets be honest..

In the past other religions hand thier big problems and genocide.. but this is the here and now .. and what matters.. And in the here and now Suicide bombers and Terrorists come from WHAT religion?? hmmm letssss could it ohhh beeeeee .. ISLAM??? why yes it is.. Look you flinstone fucks.. while you can say these are a few nutcakes in your religion they are not a "FEW" they are millions.. wake up and question your roots.. I know if I had half an independant thinking brain cell I would.
but then I haven't been brain washed my entire life..

Posted by: mrbrout at May 1, 2004 12:34 PM


Hello,
I am a Muslim Arab American. I am in the US military and currently serving in Iraq. I served side by side with Jews, Christian, and others. You bid your “A” I have nothing but love for all of them.
I disagree with people cutting themselves. I disagree with people getting body piercing or tattoos all over their bodies, I disagree with celibacy in the priesthood. I disagree with the forbidden of blood transfer in Jehovah’s Witness. I disagree with some Jews who would abandon their vehicle in the middle of road on Saturday. I disagree with some Jews who would spell God “G0d”. I disagree with people who eat dogs or cats. I disagree with the “Gay Church”. I disagree with multi marriages in the Mormon Church. I disagree with relationships in the shakers community. I disagree with the Indian American ritual smoking. Bottom line is; there are lots of things I disagree with. However, I do not judge a religion based on an act performed by few people. I respect all religions whether I agree or disagree with them.
In addition I differentiate between Islam and Palestinians, and I differentiate between Judaism and Israel. There is good people and bad people in every country, religion, and race.
Finally, I disagree with David on having this Web site. It creates nothing but hate.
God Bless you all,

Posted by: Ahab at May 2, 2004 10:50 AM


What an ugly face of religion! A mind freed of religion sends men to moon and robots to mars, a mind captured by it turns against itself , hating and torturing itself to death.

Posted by: stunned at May 15, 2004 07:27 AM


one word...CRAZY

Posted by: jiff at May 29, 2004 10:24 AM


Dear All,

I would state here that the situation from this website has again alarmed me for the worst future scenario of this world.

I would say a few things that are vital for each party concerned to keep in mind... U must have patience, the devil takes away patience and creates room for hatred which ends up in the worst form of brutal acts whatever you may call terrorism or killings.
To seek knowledge of what you know not properly is the best thing to do than to come up with a new idea or opinion especially with a sensitive issue. I am a muslim and yes I love all Human beings and any form of life as my religion Islam preaches, I have respect for the Holy Prophet Jesus, Moses and all the other prophets that came before the Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) on this planet as we are the decendents from one man and woman. Lets all have patience and understanding for one another and room to love one another. I am depressed to see how the decendents of one family of Hazrat Adam and Hawa are abusing and fighting over issues that are taking them further apart.

At least if we are the humans of the 21st century I guess what I mean by patience for one another will end all this, otherwise there is no end to accusations, you can do that all day, all week, all month all year but won't come to a conclusion and any solution.

So please stop this cheap language usage against a fellow brother/ sister and let people practise what they believe with respect. Those who are wrong will learn who is right when you show them what you practise is better than what he/she is doing.

Take care and please learn to love without a reason.

But do think twice before you blame and accuse with a reason.

Posted by: Bobby at September 14, 2004 10:18 AM


You people keep using the term racist but we are talking about religion here so how does race have anything to do with it. There are plenty of non-arabs that have been brain-washed into the muslim religion.

Posted by: American at October 19, 2004 09:15 AM


Ibn Warraq (Why I am Not a Muslim) quotes Ernest Renan (1823-1892):'Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels in the Orient, that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain others in the practice of religion by terror. To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him.'

Liberate those that are in the bondages of Islam - set them free from this evil cult.

Posted by: Volvi at October 22, 2004 06:27 PM


people have the right to choose what they want to do. If one man decides he wants to cut his head open, then so be it, it is what he belives in.

OTHER people have no right to tell him he shouldnt be doing that.

i understand not all of you agree with this ritual, but others do and it is thier life, they can live it how ever they decide.

I am from australia, and have not seen any of this happening here.but if i had the change i would love to pack my bags and be in lebonon for this specil day.

The christian bible says do onto others as you would have done to your self, well if you dont want people telling you your and idiot or a mooron. then my suggestion is not to be calling these people who have faith in thier religion anything you would not call yourself.they are faithful people and i can see they must all love thier prophet muhammad very much and i am sure they will live with muhammed's blessings.

PEASE 2 ALL!!!

love Eilz

Posted by: Eileen at October 31, 2004 07:41 PM


"love is patiant, love is kind, it does not envy, it it does not boast, it is not proud, it is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angared, it KEEPS NO RECORD OF WRONGS, love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth.
it always protects, alwats trusts, always hopes, always perserveres. love never fails, but where there are prophecies, they will cease, Where there ARE TONGUES They will be stilled, Where there is knowledge, it will fade away."

love and pray for those who hate you.
God, Allah, whatever- LOVE

Posted by: clayton jackson at November 1, 2004 06:45 PM


"For one thing, it's "haram" or forbidden to pray with such wounds and blood so how in the world would this be allowed in the Islam religion." Exactly!!! I believe that this is horrible and cruel. we are not suppose to harm our bodies for they do not belong to us but to allah. Hurting yourself is not a good way of showing that you are mouring for them and appreciate them; maybe a dua for them or nafal would work so much better. i mean come on people islam is peaceful! most of the actions that have taken place reciently are those of extremest. and correct me if i am wrong, but i thought they believed that hazrat ali was prophet and not mohummad (s.a.w)?


May Allah lead us all in the straight path and may he forgive us of our sins. amin

Posted by: nima at November 23, 2004 12:20 PM


After 9-11, there were virtually no Muslims standing up to denounce the vicious attacks on innocent folks, devised to bring down America economically. In fact there were parties in the streets in all over the world, by Muslims, laughing at all the innocent folks who were murdered. These actions by the leaders of Islam, and their followers, shows the true nature of the religion. By default, and to their shame, Muslims have let their true nature out, on TV, for the whole world to witness. So, what is it you want all of us infidel fools to believe again? Oh, that Islam is a peaceful religion. That simply is not true, and is demonstrated daily all around the world. Saying what you believe is 1%, action is 99%. Muslims demonstrate with explosives, what they want all infidels to understand. Even then, no one can figure out what in the world they are trying to prove.

Posted by: ralph at January 23, 2005 10:13 PM


Bottom Line...

Whether you are Jew, Christian, Moslem or Hindu we all come from one GOD....

This might be an extreme case, meaning pictures on this website, what our prophets taught us is to have a balance in life and love for each other....

Remember this in life...I can have a different side of the story by showing what Israel does to the palestinians...it is a two way street...

The moslems who you think are creating problems in this world are not Shias but the extremists Talibans, Wahabis and Al Qaeida which are only 5% of this Moslem population in this world..the rest are just like you and me peacful and loving people....

So please, please teach the message of love and brotherhood among everybody....

Peace....my brothers and sisters

Posted by: Rizwan M at February 15, 2005 05:05 PM


Hey i'm 20/f, I randomly came one here... I was born in Pakistan and moved to the States when I was a month old. I didnt even know what a sunni or shiite was until i was 11. I am a shiite tho, but see hardly anyone takes "ancient rituals" as far as those depicted in the pictures anymore. As it clearly states, many countries now have provisions dealing with it. The more accepted version is basically taking ur hand and tapping it on your chest like a heartbeat. Its usually done during a religious "song" which i guess the whole situation could somehow be compared to going to Church and having the choir sing at the end, waving their hands and getting really into it. I guess the main difference is that the choir rejoices and we are basically in "mourning"... its like an eternal funeral. If one wishes to learn about the ancient massacre you can't help but feel bad about what happened. Its mainly a ten day long occasion. Each night there is a gathering and the horrible events that happened centuries ago are retold. (Oh then after u get free food) :-P It is one thing to read about it, but when u hear it being told, It even makes me cry and im not one to get toooo religious about things. I have a religion but i'm not really that religious. but anywho, i felt obliged to leave a comment... so there ya go and have a good one and just remember that all religions rule even not having a religion rules... just live life

Posted by: chickenstein at February 18, 2005 01:42 PM


oh yea i forgot to add one important comment... NO CHILD SHOULD HAVE TO DO ANYTHING LIKE WHAT IS DEPICTED UNLESS THEY FULLY UNDERSTAND THE SIGNIFICANCE AND WANT TO DO IT BUT STILL EXCESS BLEEDING SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED AT ALLLLLL.
ok i'm done :-)

Posted by: chickenstein at February 18, 2005 01:46 PM


I just heard on the news about the events unfolding in Iraq. Although news of the war rarely interests me (I have been opposed to Bush's decisions), I find the religious aspects of the Muslims interesting. I appreciate your including the informative article, but not your comment. It is this prejudice that keeps the war going. A religion is a religion, and it does not affect the way a country or group of its citizens relate to America. Many of the self injurious Muslim peoples may not like Americans, but I see their point as our society has become more corrupt than any other country's. I don't think that labeling these Shiite Muslims as "barbaric morons" is very accepting, or any way to end intolerance or hate. I actually think that this society has become a suicide society, and that self injury and other "suicidal" behaviors are leading to the end of our existance... because society as evolved beyond a point where it can be saved.

Posted by: Lia at February 18, 2005 03:42 PM


hey all...

I was browsing through the internet to know more about my religion and of Ahlul Bayt, Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.)'s family, and i got here... Just wanted to state somethin about Shia and Aashoora...

A Shia is a word meaning ‘Follower’. We are Followers of Ahlul Bayt. Ahlul Bayt are the Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.), Fatimah
al-Zahraa, Imam Ali, Hasan, Hussein, and the holy successors after them. If we want to say we are Shia’s of Ahlul Bayt, then we must act upon our beliefs. We must stand up for the defense and truth of Islam. NOW, the way the defense occurs is WHAT is leading to disasters. Whether it was the Holy Prophet Jesus or Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.), both gave their teachings through words and NOT war. I understand that many of you take it soo personal when it comes to religion and thus express urself though Insults. But i think that "I" should take it personal after reading a lot of -ve comments regarding Ashoura. I've actually did it when i was young. It was a way to demonstrated my devotion to Ahlul Bayt by letting blood flow freely from the wounds. I did it for consecutive years. As i was getting older and mature, i realized that there are other ways that I, perosnally, can express my love and devotion to Ahlul Bayt, instead of the blood, THOUGH IT'S NOT PAINFUL. Some people really go far and hurt themselves, but THAT'S their problem! It's their lives. ON THE CONTRARY, i don't take it personal when u state ur point of views about Aashoora because u have ur own thoughts and beliefs and u have the right to state whatever u want. BUT what pisses me off is the LACK of RESPECT. Each individual in this world have different ways of demostrating their love and devotion to anything they cherish. I don't understand why A LOT mix religion with Politics issues. This is, i believe, the MEDIA brainwashing a lot of people. Anything that occurs, automatically directs us muslims and a lot of "wrong" ideas are spread, making people all around the world believing that Islam is bad or muslims are here to commit harm and a lot of other -ve issues... For example, the idea people have of Hezbolla. Hezbolla is always blamed for anything that happens to Israel, America, and other parts of the world. Hezbolla's leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah is on America's TOP Terrorist list. WHY? Because he was defending his country? When ONE american or Israeli person dies, u see CNN and other news making such a big deal out of it and not mentionin the numbers of death occurin the arab world.Really sad... Anyways, that's all what i wanted to say regarding Hezbolla and just a bried talk about politics...
My main concern here is, as said previously, we all have the SAME GOD. Have RESPECT for one and another. If u're not sure about cetain points, GOD bless the Internet ;). Go search for them. Don't state anything unless u're sure about it... and plz don't insult other religions and don't mix religion with politics. Remember, that each one feels differently about certain things and they have the right to express themsleves the way they want; of course not hurting his/her surroundings. So stop the -ve talk about Ashoura. A whole lot cry knowing that it was HUSSEIN, for example, the holy Imam, that gave his life, defending ISLAM, and now we have to take his place and defend him. DEfend him, NOT by violence but through talks and try to convince each other as much as we can. We all want PEACE in the end.

Hope i was able to change some people's views about Shia...

MB, Shia of Ahlul Bayt...

Posted by: MB at February 19, 2005 05:35 AM


I am glad I have a God who has done the work for me. I am glad I have a God who does not require me to observe any holy days or rituals to earn favor with him. I am glad that I have a God who loved me so much he came to this world to die in my place. I am glad that his grace is a gift which I can never earn. I am glad He is the only way, the only truth, and the only life.

Thank you so much Jesus.

Posted by: Bill at February 19, 2005 05:44 AM


Salamu alaikum,
My name is nader bitar i'm 14 years old i'm a lebanese shiite muslim, my father is from nabatiye the place where people living abroad think that there people are sheding blood for nothing... WELL STOP FOR A SECOND... We all have one god and he had given us brains to think and follow the prophet MOHAMAD's words in keeping protecting islam, praying to god and you know the rest... the reason i'm writing you this note is because to tell you guys that we are not sheding blood for the sake that we are muslims...NO we are sheding blood to show how the ahel al beit in particular al Imam al Hussien died suffering for islam not to stop, and we are sheding blood to express our love to the ahel al beit... i would like to stress on the quote on the above page...
"I don't think I can trust Shiite Muslims that celebrate Ashoura with defending women rights, gay rights, democracy or freedom. They'll have to stop cutting themselves like barbaric morons from the 4th century before there's a chance they'll reject intolerance, violence and hate."
First we are not defending women rights because here in lebanon all men and woman are equal.
Second we are not celebrating Ashoura to defend gay rights, I REPETE WE ARE CELEBRATING ASHOURA FOR THE SAKE THAT WE LOVE THE AHEL AL BEIT AND WE APPRICIATE WHAT THEY DID TO PREVENT ISLAM FOM STOPING.
Third we already have democracy and freedom in lebanon after you israelies had left (keeping mines behind you)
I would like to tell who ever wrote this qoute that he/she is so wrong and please go and open the internet and learn ISLAM!
We muslims respect all religions, so you don't have the right to tell be people something wrong about our reigion...

HOPE YOU GUYS LEARNT WHY DO WE SHED OUR BLOOD AND CELEBRATE ASHOURA!!!!
Salamu alaikum,

Posted by: NADER BITAR at February 19, 2005 06:11 AM


For God so Loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son (Jesus), to the end that all that believe in him may not perish, but have eternal life.

He shed his blood for my sins - thank God I don't have to do it for a religious ritual (including circumcision - a blood ritual of the jews)

Posted by: John at February 19, 2005 06:34 AM


OK folks here is the deal. people of little learning and jelousy will always turn to religion to try any way to justify their lot in life. With all the religions the same thread can be folowed. Someone has claimed to either be god or have seen god or is the son of god or god told them to do something etc etc. We have to wonder, why doesn't god just talk to us all? If he is all powerful, why doesn't he just show up?
The reason is that there was no god to begin with or maybe there is but god did not 'talk' to any of the beginners of religions. Researching religions as I do all so called prophets, messiahs and such were just charlitans of their age who came up with a good story to tell and found out what all polititions know. A person is smart but 'people are dumb!' and without scientific devices of any kind at the time of the beginnings of religions any side show hawker could say he was the son of god, spoke to god, is god etc and someone or group would say 'yes I am sure that Billybob is the one and only true god cause heck, what do I have to do with my pitiful existance but believe in this guy!
But but but, did you notice that all the founders of religions.....died!!!!THEY ALL DIED YOU DOPES! If they were sons of god, gods, were able to talk to god wouldnt they be immortal?!
At least the Romans fairy tales had immortals included in them. Let me ask you this, did anyone see Mohammed ascent to heaven and come back with the koran?? Where is the original one would it not be indestructable if it was given by god? Of course no one saw him it is because he never went. If you read the darn thing it isn't in any order! It is just rantings of a sick mind just as Hitler, pharoes of Egypt, rulers of the roman empire et al. There is no tolerance, one of the writings is porn, he talks about the rape of his 9 year old wife! And claims to see 'visions' while having sex with her! If that is the case, I am a prophet too cause I see visions when I have great sex too!
In another popular religion the founder says he 'found' a 'tablet' that only he could see, he also found 3 stones to decipher the 'tablet' but he could only see the stones too! When the towns people asked for a translation the founder of the religion said only he could translate and would put his head into a HAT to read the invisible text! This is a popular religion practiced all over the world! Don't you see the commonality? This guy was a nobody who wanted to be a somebody and this is how he did it. In my eyes Jesus, mohammed, buddah, all came to power because they had a good tale to tell and ignorant people believed them. In turn they taught their children to believe and on and on until now we have people killing each other over just a good fairy tale gotten out of hand.
So go on debating in the name of religion. Me I'll go from town to town telling people that I saw god and he told me to collect money from the people of the world and build a great house for me to live in. And if they believe in me hard enough I will have sex with only the prettiest women among them so they can be fondeled by a guy who saw god. Yeah , thats the ticket!!
Oh of course no one will have actually SEEN me talk to god cause I only see him when I am alone!
Yeah boy! Give up that money!

Posted by: muhabid's brother at February 19, 2005 06:57 AM


Dear Muhubid's brother,

Yes, they all died and all but one stayed in the ground. Jesus rose from the dead. And, there were many witnesses. Yes there were, and are, and will be charlitans (wolves in sheeps clothing) whose own comfort can be found in money or power. But Jesus left this earth and sent His Spirit (the Holy Spirit) to live in us if we would only believe and be born of His Spirit. So He does talk to us. He does love us! Enough to to have shed His own blood to to cover our sins, and He did it when we were cursing Him. I for one am glad that He said "these things were hidden from the wise and intelligent and revealed unto babes" That is fair and "tolerant". Many are so wise they cannot see, but the simple can. "By grace you have been saved through faith" Eph 2:8. All men and women try to jusify their lot in life, it is a gift from God. In a way this is all so exciting to read, because it has all been foretold, and is being unfolded right before my eyes. What a priveledge! "Awake sleeper arise from the dead and Christ will shine on you" Eph 5:14.
Maranatha!

Posted by: maranatha at February 19, 2005 08:31 AM


I think I have a solution to all of this!

Let's find a way to blow up planet Earth! I mean, obviously whichever God does exist, if any, has left long ago. We have failed miserably as a species, so let's just give up.

How does that sound?

Posted by: Chaplin at February 19, 2005 08:55 AM


its seems everyone has their own spin on lifestyles religions. you have the athiests saying there is no god, of course i wouldnt expect anything less from an athiest. saying why doesnt god just show up and talk to us. meanwhile god could be thinking "why dont u just shut up so you can hear me talk". and maybe u're the foolish one when u hear a good story and believe it. however some of us are not that naieve. some go to the extreme trying to prove scripture wrong, well good luck with that one, the only person you're convincing is yourself. i dont think beating yourself really proves much except that people bleed and if you have to prove that to your god, count me out. my lord knows my heart without me beating myself or others. islam is such a violent religion and will not last to the end. the crazies will kill themselves off first. a suicide bomber doesnt recieve martyrdom, they just get blown to smitherines. that shows neither devotion or intelligence. i thank my lord jesus for keeping me from this ideology and sin. thank your for not blinding my eyes. you are the way, truth and life.

Posted by: commen sense at February 19, 2005 08:59 AM


Friends;
Instead of addressing the many decent points brought up by many well meaning people, may I bring up another interesting point for further personal study? Is Islam a legitimate religion? Has anyone done a study on the origins of this demonic religion-whose real purpose is to spread violence and hatred across the globe? I would task any real free-thinking, and God loving individual to look into this fascinationg study-which will lead them into the fact that this religion is actually rooted in the pagan rituals of the Babylonian empire.....
David k....

Posted by: David K. at February 19, 2005 09:08 AM


I agree that all people need more tolerance and education. I agree that Ashoura does not have anything to do with Terrorism. I agree that children should not be involved.

I do agree that most of the Muslimworld is living in the 7th Century. I also think that the bitterness of some of the Muslim world comes from economic hardship due to the rejection of modern ways.

I do not like the way women are treated, and the way that religious tolerance is cast aside. I do not think that Islam is a violent religion per se, but i do think that a minority percentage of Muslims are using their religion as a guise to commit atrocities.

So the bottom line is that the bitterness is caused by improper execution of Islam causes economic hardship (look atht eh unemployment data on Saudi Arabia)on the people thus driving them to terrorism. And as it happens tolerance of others is one of the modern things that Islamics reject. Basically respect for a culture comes mainly on their tolerance of others.

Posted by: Sam at February 19, 2005 09:14 AM


Hello,
I must protest this article. I have been to several if these events in NYC and never once have I heard anyone chant death to America or death to Jews. While it is true some people cut themselves in order to identify with the savage way in with the Prophets grandson was murdered. Self flagellation is not commom practice among the majority of Shias. Just like crucifing ones self is not done ny all Christians durning Easter.

The act depicted here is not reprentative of everyone who practices SHia Islam, which is quite different from Sunni Islam Which is the religion of the Arab world. Shia Islam is not practiced by the Arabs. In fact more Shias a killed by Arabs than anyone else. While no religion is pefect, all Shias should not be judged by the acts of a few extremists.

Regards,
Sajjad

Posted by: Sajjad at February 19, 2005 09:41 AM


Whether Americans agree with them or not, when religious groups display different rituals such as bleeding themselves...etc. These people are participating, in their hearts, in a communion with God. It is a showing of their dedication to their religion. Unless, this reflection of their faith threatens directly another group then no democracy should threaten them. This is not the case. Americans don't fully understand the separation that has occured throughout the middle east. We, Americans, are making the final fatal mistakes now. Those battles in the middle east have been going on for years. America creates dominant weapons and then choses to take Israels side in the long going battle. This must stop now. Our politicians and newspapers lable the terrorists as "muslum. Americans are being programmed to accept Israel and denounce any enemies of Israel. We have no right to force other nationalities to conform to our materialistic and shallow existence. Let me sum up the richness of our American culture for the rest of the world. It is very simple. Keep in mind nothing is 100% anywhere, but what happens when you have a democratic society? You have materialistic women controlling sex hungry men. Its all about women feeling better than other women by gaining more expensive materialistic goods while the men try to feel better than other men by having sex with more attractive women. Thats America. We are simple. We are stupid. And because we built up an arsenal that no country will ever defeat our politicians are going to try to make the rest of the world conform to us. Well let me tell the rest of the world, I'm American and you may not have things right in your side of the world but believe me, you do not want to become us!

Posted by: chad d at February 19, 2005 10:10 AM


As far as I can tell everyone here hates everyone
else just because they are different or they don't practice the same religion. I grew up catholic and converted to judaism and I don't hate christians, muslims, or any other religion.
What I do hate is intolerence. We all believe in one true GOD, no matter what you call HIM( ALLAH, YAHWEH, JEHOVAH)HE is the same being who created us in HIS image. We will never know peace
(the world)until we accept each other and love each other for what we are (human beings, all the same race) not what we want each other to be.
May GOD bless all of you and bring peace for our children.

Posted by: Jimmy at February 19, 2005 10:25 AM


Just to let every one here be aware that the death of Husayn bin Ali, grandson of Muhammad, happened for one reason and one reason only: political power.

Husayn wanted nothing more than to assume the role of Caliph. Because of this, he was killed, in battle, by his rival's horde in Karbala.

Yazid accepted the severed head of Husayn as proof of his demise. Yazid and his followers were also Muslims.

Just as Muhammad instilled, Islam is a politico-social movement which sanctions murder to achieve political power.

The Shia mourn for a would-be usurper to political power. There is nothing holy in this at all.

Posted by: Moe's Foe [TypeKey Profile Page] at February 19, 2005 12:41 PM


Well I guess what I said doesn't matter because everyone her just wants to point fingewrs and say the other is wrong. As long as we keep doing that there will never be peace.

Posted by: jimmy at February 19, 2005 02:58 PM


Jimmy,

What you say is admirable, but not pragmatically practical.

As long as the world (as defined by Islam) is divided into Dar al Islam (House of Islam) and Dar al Harb (House of War or the lands of infidels), there will never be peace.

Until Qur'an can be expurgated of its injunctions to kill or dhimmitize non-believers, there will never be peace.

Don't hold your breath though. The "abridged" edition of Qur'an will never happen for Muhammad told the world that it is the literal word of Allah.

And the word of Allah can never be excised.

Posted by: Moe's Foe [TypeKey Profile Page] at February 19, 2005 03:15 PM


Salam ( peace) to everyone,
I am muslim (I am not sunni or shia just a muslim...I believe that muslims should refer to themselves as muslims to stay as one group). I believe many muslims on this site have indicated that not all muslims practice this ritualand it is not part of islamic duty or dictated by God in the Holy Quran, but it is similar to people in phillipines who torture themsleves their dedication ( I am sorry for the death of al Hussein but love and respect is not shown this way in muslim tradition... but I am not their judge..God is..and each one of us have his/her problems...some are obvious and others are not)

For my fellow christians, please forgive me if I push it here a little bit (not to defend this ashoura practice)..but isn't it ironic that you accept and believe that God sent his son(to be tortured and killed to show us his love with his son's blood...(just watch Passion Movie)...but you think these guys bleeding to show love to something they adore ...are crazy and barbaric.

and for those christians who say muslims do not respect woman is a total none sense...accepted society traditions in arab world does not mean it is from islam ... I have a mother, a wife, daughter ,and sisters who I respect and love. Islam teaches me to take care of them and treat them well. But before I finish here well let me think..Allah is a God in arabic that is not masculine or feminie word but isn't God in Christianty is Male only (God the father, Jesus the son, and the Holy ghost who knows) where is the female... man and woman are equal in christianity faith...if God is at least 2/3 male only.

I refer to christian and jews as people of the holy books..." that how the Quran refers to them..and distinguish them from the non-believers...I do not hate them. If you go back in history...muslims tolerated Jews and christians except for several occasions...If I recall it correctly ..the Jews where porsecuted by christians and millions were killed ..compared to thousands of muslims and jews killed by each other...The crusaders started with jewish tribes in France...in Spain the inquistitions killed jews and muslims...Hitler..how may jews has he killed while the church was silent....I hope there will be no killing and we will live in peace with each ..and let God be our judge we all are very smart people. But lets not forget history...it gives us a better view than what we see on news.

Sorry for writting so much..I am sorry if I pissed anybody off...

Posted by: ta at February 19, 2005 10:35 PM


Muslims are pathetic creatures. Their animal instincts are more dominant than their human instincts. They are sick by nature. What do you expect from a religion that preaches an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. It is obvious when this is taught to a person from young, the person grows up to be violent with no sense of peace and forgiveness. Muslims have a hand in all the hot spots in this world. Hence it is no surprise that when the word Islam or Muslim flashes by brutal violence comes to mind. Muslims are selfish and by hook or by crook they want their religion to be the dominant religion. This display of animal culture and violence is not getting them far. No sensible person will ever embrace a religion of this sort. The only recruits they get are the very poor people who are needy (and are coerced by monetary help) and criminals from prisons. It does not take much for a criminal to become a Muslim because by being a criminal he/she is already nearly there. Saudi Arabia is the No. 1 country in the world that churns out these Muslim radicals and it should be put in its place. After all the West made it rich and it is time for the West to make it poor. They went from Camels to Cadillacs. It is time they went from Cadillacs back to Camels.

Posted by: Mohammed Bin Brutal at February 19, 2005 11:04 PM


I posted the above pictures almost two years ago. In the last few days many people have posted comments on this article, and things are getting a bit out of hand.

I think that everything that needed to be said, was said. I still believe that cutting yourself and especially children and babies is wrong. It is also wrong to support Hezbollah, the Iranian backed terrorist group responsible for deliberately murdering hundreds of women and children.

I don't care if these self-inflicted wounds are made in reference to the sad story of a family member of Mohammed; combine this spectacle of blood and the hate and intolerance coming from Islamic Supremacists from Al-Qaeda, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah and all you'll get is more hate and murder.

I am now closing this thread; no additional comments will be allowed.

Posted by: David Melle at February 19, 2005 11:05 PM


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